Last post on Oct 23, 2006 at 1:11 AM
You are in the Chrysler/Plymouth Voyager, Dodge Caravan
What is this discussion about?
Dodge Caravan, Dodge Grand Caravan, Chrysler Voyager, Plymouth Voyager, Chrysler Town and Country, Van
#3280 of 4276 Re: Failure of rear brake lines '96 T&C [tsu670]
Sep 24, 2005 (6:46 am)
My Dodge Caravan, 1998 has just had a similar failure of the brake lines - Rusted through where the braided line meets the solid line, along the left frame just past the junction block. No collection of debris, just two rusting lines - dripping clear brake fluid. Vehicle is still solid at 124K, but for the price we pay, and with maintenance (that the dealer does) I would expect more.
I'm almost certain the dealer will claim no knowledge of this kind of problem, as he did for a head gasket problem a few years ago. (I paid for that replacement - 78,000 miles).
How do we get their attention to the problems/dangers?
#3281 of 4276 Power steering pump belt adjustment
Sep 24, 2005 (12:18 pm)
Hi..Im attempting a timing belt & water pump replacement on my just purchased 98' Voyager with a 2.4l. 4.
Ive done this on other cars before but every new car is a challenge.
The only problem Im having is getting the power steering pump to budge after loosening the 2 bolts that APPARENTLY are suppose to be for slacking it up for removal...... NO dice! & I cant see the entire pump since it sits low behind the head.
Ive cut the belt off so it doesnt slow my progress down but eventually Ill have to get a new belt on it....
Any ideas, tips, etc on how the pump swings free?...is it frozen?....and there really isnt any place to get a pry bar behind it to try & worry it lose.
Thanx in advance!..
#3282 of 4276 Re: Failure of rear brake lines '96 T&C [ch42howard]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Sep 24, 2005 (3:38 pm)
I don't think the dealer or Chrysler is responsible at that kind of mileage....sounds almost like an electrolysis issue....strange.....do you live in a place where they salt the roads at all, or do you live near the ocean?
#3283 of 4276 Re: Failure of rear brake lines '96 T&C [Mr_Shiftright]
Sep 24, 2005 (6:14 pm)
Good possibilities, however, in Frederick MD, they don't salt the roads and we're nearly 80 miles from any salt water, not that I drive near there more than a couple times a year. The rest of the brake lines are clean and solid - no rust- just the area where the braid meets the steel of the lines is rusted - and rusted through.
#3284 of 4276 Re: Rear Brake Light Bulbs are good, but do not work [westfork]
Sep 25, 2005 (6:17 am)
Howdy.... I have a 2001 and for the life of me I can figure out how to get to the rear bulbs.... I have a right rear brake light out and cannot seem to find any way to get to it without taking apart the whole rear paneling......
As far as your problem..... it sounds like a grounding problem from the socket.... just for kicks run a ground wire to the bulb .......
#3285 of 4276 2001 TC.. How to get to rear bulbs
Sep 25, 2005 (6:55 am)
Howdy.... I have a 2001 and for the life of me I cant figure out how to get to the rear bulbs.... I have a right rear brake light out and cannot seem to find any way to get to it without taking apart the whole rear paneling...... any ideas???
#3286 of 4276 Re: Failure of rear brake lines '96 T&C [ch42howard]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Sep 25, 2005 (7:08 am)
Well electrolysis often takes place at a point where two different metals touch or connect. Not much you can do except swap out the lines for new ones and maybe grease up those junctions.
#3287 of 4276 Re: Transmission problems [deleaker]
Sep 25, 2005 (9:05 am)
What you may try & I did this with my 91 Voyager v6, was to replace both speed sensors &input & output) at a pretty low cost (about $13.00 each) .
These can be found thru www.rockauto.com.
They arent really easy to replace because they are down low on the front of the trans but its do-able with patience.
It may or may not fix the problem but, its a low cost approach to eliminate one item that can be the cause. It worked for me & I had the same problem you have.
#3288 of 4276 Justbill1 tail light bulbs
Sep 25, 2005 (3:12 pm)
The owners manual says with the hatch open, pull the two black plastic plugs next to the lens and behold it will come off. The bulbs are inside the lens.
#3289 of 4276 Re: Failure of rear brake lines '96 T&C [ch42howard]
Sep 26, 2005 (5:59 pm)
Chrysler Corporation and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) is well aware of the rusted brake line problem on the Chrysler Minivans. NHTSA is investigating the problem because of the many complaints that they have received.
There is a Recall on the Chrysler Minivans in Canada for rusted brake lines which should start in September.
You should also check your brake lines all the way back to the rear wheels. The design of the holding clamps allow the brake lines to rub together and the protective zinc coating will be removed. When the coating is removed corrosion will occur very quickly.
The only way that you can get their attention is to notify Chrysler and NHTSA about your problem.
We had a brake line burst on our 1999 Dodge Caravan. The brake lines were original equipment on the vehicle. We had a brake job done with 31K miles and we now have 47K miles on the car.
If you check your brake lines you will see that the solid line is made of steel and it is welded to a stainless steel flex segment. The welding of dissimilar metals can cause crevice corrosion which can cause a brake line burst without warning.
I just sent the following letter to NHTSA in August.
Dr. Jeffrey W. Runge
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Administrator
400 7th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20590
August 22, 2005
A review of the NHTSA complaint site indicates that Daimler Chrysler Corporation has a very serious safety defect or nonconformance that could result in a serious injury and or death. Daimler Chrysler has been notified of this defect/nonconformance on several occasions and continues to deny the problem.
The metal brake lines on the 1999 Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Chrysler Mini-Vans are welded with dissimilar metals. They have braided stainless steel flex segments that are welded to steel brake lines. This welding of dissimilar metals could cause corrosion of the steel brake lines and results in a brake line burst which occurs without any warnings.
We found five (5) complaints to NHTSA, on the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) Complaint Site pertaining to the corrosion of Chrysler supplied brake lines which resulted in brake line bursts. There may be more that we didn't locate.
Ref: ODI Complaint Numbers - 10112174, 10121461, 10023409, 10087291, and 10125674.
Complaint Numbers 10103217, 10044433, and 10017536 may also be related to this same problem.
This complaint is very personal to us because my wife experienced a brake line burst in our 1999 Dodge Caravan. If the brake line burst occurred in heavy traffic and/or at highway speed, it could have resulted in her death or serious injury. Ref: ODI Complaint # 10121461.
We notified Daimler Chrysler Corporation on several occasions by telephone and emails concerning this serious safety defect/nonconformance. They were apologetic about the mishap, however, they stated (1) that they had never had a complaint concerning brake line burst on any of their vehicles, (2) they had never issued a Service Bulletin or Recall, and (3) they could do nothing for me because the vehicle was out of warranty.
We are appalled by Daimler Chrysler's lack of concern on this serious safety issue and we believe that their lack of corrective action is criminal.
We are also upset because NHTSA, has had several complaints on this safety related defect/nonconformance and no action has been taken.
Do we have to have a DEATH before Daimler Chrysler Corporation or NHTSA investigates this serious safety defect or nonconformance?
What is the LIFE EXPECTANCY of these brake lines?
How do you stop a vehicle in heavy traffic or at highway speeds?
Is the consumer or manufacturer, responsible to prove that these brake lines are defective or nonconforming?
The Safety Recall Compendium issued by NHTSA (3rd Release, June 2001) clearly requires that,
When to Report (49 U.S.C. & 30118 and 49 CFR Part 573.5 b)
A manufacturer who has determined that a safety defect or noncompliance exists, must report such a determination to NHTSA within 5 working days. A manufacturer need not have identified the cause, scope, or remedy in order to make a determination that a safety defect or noncompliance exists, at least in some vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment. If part of the information which is required to fully describe the recall is unknown, notification to the agency must still be made with the existing information within 5 working days. The remaining information is to be provided as it becomes available.
Who Should Report (49 U.S.C. & 30102 AND 30118: 49 CFR Parts 573.3 and 579)
Each manufacturer of a motor vehicle has recall responsibility for any safety-related defect or any noncompliance determined to exist in a vehicle or in any item of original equipment. The manufacturer of an item of motor vehicle equipment in which a safety defect or noncompliance is determined to exist (1) is responsible for notifying the vehicle manufacturer and (2) with respect to an item of replacement equipment (including tires), has recall responsibility for the equipment containing the safety defect or noncompliance. (49 CFR Part 579 "Defect and Noncompliance Responsibility".)
We understand that Daimler Chrysler Corporation has the same type brake line configuration in the 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 models of their Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Chrysler Town & Country, Mini-Vans.
We also understand that a change was made on the 2001 models that removed the welded Stainless Steel Flex segment from the brake lines.
We have copies of emails sent to Daimler Chrysler Corporation concerning this complaint and also emails with their replies to us.
We also have a section of the original brake line that was removed from my 1999 Dodge Caravan. It can be made available to your testing facilities to analyze the cause of the defect/nonconformance. Ref: attached picture.
Please keep us informed as to your progress on this serious safety defect/nonconformance.